WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
Sadly, some of these men ended up getting lynched, still in uniform when they got back stateside.
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
Animal wrote:Sadly, some of these men ended up getting lynched, still in uniform when they got back stateside.
I believe that you’re may be referring to what’s called the “Red Summer” 1919 race riots.
The image below is from an incident in 1917, and what I believe just boiled down to more of a show trial, rather than an attempt at getting any real justice.
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The black soldiers the disparity in the way they were treated in Europe as to how they were treated back home, especially as soldiers. I’m not saying that there wasn’t racism in Europe, there was, but there was also respect for them within the military that wasn’t given to them at home.
Pershing in his directive to the French Military Mission, wrote that the black man lacked a “civic and professional conscience” and was a “constant menace to the American,” it’s like something straight out of the Clan hand-book.
The French new better, like it’s often the little things that matter the most to soldiers, like giving the respect that’s due to them doesn’t cost anything.
For example the French welcomed the black regiments as soldiers first, and ensured that they were treated as soldiers, not just good for hard labour and collecting the dead. The French also weren’t shy when it came to awarding their bravery, unlike in the American army, where the black soldier wasn’t even sure of a wound stripe, let alone a medal for bravery, and the Medal of Honour was out of the question, especially when you had attitudes at the top like Pershing’s.
It gets even better, Rooevelt used Henry Johnson’s image to recruit for WWII, claiming him to be one of the bravest soldiers of WW1, yet he didn’t mention putting right any of the wrongs done to those who served during WW1.
While the French awarded Johnson Croix de Guerre Gold Palm for valor, The US awarded them with their own parade, but that was only because they weren’t allowed to join the official victory parade with the white troops.
Ironic when you think about it, the first black soldier to earn the Medal of Honor was during the Civil War, and the Medal of Honor was awarded to black soldiers and sailors up to the China campaign, yet none during WWI.
Makes you wonder what changed between 1900 and 1917.
wfrad- Posts : 16416
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
Between 1900 and 1917 is when Jim Crow segregation laws took full effect all over the Southern states. For the next 65 years, Blacks couldn't even use the same bathrooms or water fountains as Whites, much less restaurants, hotels, parks, etc. There were influential Whites who didn't even want Blacks to be allowed into the military, let they use their military training to incite a race war in the absence of being granted full equality.
The 1917 riot in Houston was a response by members of the all-Black(except for officers) 24th Infantry Regiment to being mistreated by local authorities.
There was a movie made 2 years ago about the Houston Riot.
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10452854/?ref_=tt_mv_close
The 1917 riot in Houston was a response by members of the all-Black(except for officers) 24th Infantry Regiment to being mistreated by local authorities.
There was a movie made 2 years ago about the Houston Riot.
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10452854/?ref_=tt_mv_close
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
Thanks for the link, I’ll have a look for the movie.
The information that I read said that there was also some white soldiers involved but they walk free.
My understanding of the Jim Crow laws may be off tilt, and I thought that the flare-up came after WW1 with an increase in the number of lynchings and the race riots.
I didn’t think that within the military there had been any significant outward change towards the treatment of black units from the 1880’s up to the end of WW1. Segregation was still the norm, with mainly a mixed bunch of white officer, many of whom looked down on the men and often treated them no better than the animals. Yet, bravery was rewarded, all be it less frequently than for their white counterparts.
From my understanding (which may be a little simplistic), it just seemed that from the 1890’s to the end of WW1 there didn’t seem to be any outwardly changed. It appears that the situation deteriorated mainly due to the mindset of senior officers, rather than a crack down of the Jim Crow laws and was kept neatly in house.
There was also an increase (very small) in the number of black officers, along with the need to give the enlisted men further education just prior to WW1, which I suppose also didn’t go down well.
Then on their return from Frances lead to a general increase in southern racism, resulting in using the Jim Crow laws to prevent education and to uphold segregation.
The same more or less occurred after WWII, during their service they were still segregated and relegated to a mainly a service or reserve role. Then when the black troops returned home, the establishment (mainly the southern) didn’t want them to have any ideas above their station and clamped used Jim Crow to clamp down on them.
Although it was technically illegal, there was still segregated units in the Korean war, and elements of Jim Crow up to the late sixties.
The only good thing that came out of the court marshal was it brought about the right to appeal, brought on by those in Washington who were furious at the speed in which they carried out the hangings.
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The information that I read said that there was also some white soldiers involved but they walk free.
My understanding of the Jim Crow laws may be off tilt, and I thought that the flare-up came after WW1 with an increase in the number of lynchings and the race riots.
I didn’t think that within the military there had been any significant outward change towards the treatment of black units from the 1880’s up to the end of WW1. Segregation was still the norm, with mainly a mixed bunch of white officer, many of whom looked down on the men and often treated them no better than the animals. Yet, bravery was rewarded, all be it less frequently than for their white counterparts.
From my understanding (which may be a little simplistic), it just seemed that from the 1890’s to the end of WW1 there didn’t seem to be any outwardly changed. It appears that the situation deteriorated mainly due to the mindset of senior officers, rather than a crack down of the Jim Crow laws and was kept neatly in house.
There was also an increase (very small) in the number of black officers, along with the need to give the enlisted men further education just prior to WW1, which I suppose also didn’t go down well.
Then on their return from Frances lead to a general increase in southern racism, resulting in using the Jim Crow laws to prevent education and to uphold segregation.
The same more or less occurred after WWII, during their service they were still segregated and relegated to a mainly a service or reserve role. Then when the black troops returned home, the establishment (mainly the southern) didn’t want them to have any ideas above their station and clamped used Jim Crow to clamp down on them.
Although it was technically illegal, there was still segregated units in the Korean war, and elements of Jim Crow up to the late sixties.
The only good thing that came out of the court marshal was it brought about the right to appeal, brought on by those in Washington who were furious at the speed in which they carried out the hangings.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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wfrad- Posts : 16416
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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Re: WW1 & the fellow Americans that regiments didn't want to fight along side.
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