Field Marshal 1831-1855

sbintayab Fri 10 Aug 2012, 10:59 am

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1. Field Marshal 1831-1846
2. Field Marshal 1846-1855

sbintayab Wed 22 Aug 2012, 3:38 pm

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sbintayab Fri 24 Aug 2012, 4:26 am

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wfrad Fri 24 Aug 2012, 5:00 am

Nice charts Shams, a little hard to see though.
WF

ChrisF202 Fri 24 Aug 2012, 5:18 am

Yeah, great charts but too small. Embarassed

sbintayab Fri 24 Aug 2012, 6:26 am

Dear Wilf and ChrisF202,
Thanks..... I have faced problem in ACDSee to reduce the size of original image...... Original image size is 11782 X 8972 pixels...... Huge in size..... So I have reduced the size using Windows Live Photo Gallery.....
Plz give me some extra time for completing the whole rank badges. I will make the pdf of whole image......
By the way you can pm me your email address... I will send the image....
Apology for hazardous image....
Shams

sbintayab Sun 26 Aug 2012, 3:18 am

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wfrad Sun 26 Aug 2012, 10:08 am

Shams,
Maybe I'm nit-picking,
Should the jacket illustration be pelisse and pelisse jacket?

sbintayab Mon 27 Aug 2012, 2:12 am

Thanks Wilf.... You are right.... I made the mistake.... Sorry and apology for that....
Thanks again....
Shams

sbintayab Fri 21 Sep 2012, 2:24 am

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FROGSMILE Mon 21 Jan 2013, 5:36 am

ChrisF202 wrote:Good job on this and the Indian Army VCO rank insignia charts!

The only error I cans see is that you appear to be using the St. Edwards crown style which has only been in use since Elizabeth II ascended to the throne in 1952. Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, and George VI all used the Tudor crown which is slightly different looking. I believe the pips may have been different as well but I am not 100% certain on that.

Any plans to do the NCOs and warrant officers?

Whilst I understand why you said it, that is not strictly true. Queen Victoria's crown was also the St Edwards Crown, it is just that it was artistically rendered in a different manner. Put another way, the decision was taken to give the crown a different appearance when it was selected for use by Queen Elizabeth II in 1953.

For Shams: A brilliant effort and I hope that you will eventually extend this to the NCO and later warrant officer ranks. I would be grateful for copies to my email address one day. You already have it.

ChrisF202 Mon 21 Jan 2013, 12:43 pm

FROGSMILE wrote:
ChrisF202 wrote:Good job on this and the Indian Army VCO rank insignia charts!

The only error I cans see is that you appear to be using the St. Edwards crown style which has only been in use since Elizabeth II ascended to the throne in 1952. Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, and George VI all used the Tudor crown which is slightly different looking. I believe the pips may have been different as well but I am not 100% certain on that.

Any plans to do the NCOs and warrant officers?

Whilst I understand why you said it, that is not strictly true. Queen Victoria's crown was also the St Edwards Crown, it is just that it was artistically rendered in a different manner. Put another way, the decision was taken to give the crown a different appearance when it was selected for use by Queen Elizabeth II in 1953.

For Shams: A brilliant effort and I hope that you will eventually extend this to the NCO and later warrant officer ranks. I would be grateful for copies to my email address one day. You already have it.

Thanks for the correction! I had no idea about the crown design changes.

When Elizabeth II passes on (may that be many years from now) do you think the appearance crowns will change with the new King Charles III (assuming he does not take a different name)?

FROGSMILE Mon 21 Jan 2013, 10:35 pm

ChrisF202 wrote:
FROGSMILE wrote:
ChrisF202 wrote:Good job on this and the Indian Army VCO rank insignia charts!

The only error I cans see is that you appear to be using the St. Edwards crown style which has only been in use since Elizabeth II ascended to the throne in 1952. Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, and George VI all used the Tudor crown which is slightly different looking. I believe the pips may have been different as well but I am not 100% certain on that.

Any plans to do the NCOs and warrant officers?

Whilst I understand why you said it, that is not strictly true. Queen Victoria's crown was also the St Edwards Crown, it is just that it was artistically rendered in a different manner. Put another way, the decision was taken to give the crown a different appearance when it was selected for use by Queen Elizabeth II in 1953.

For Shams: A brilliant effort and I hope that you will eventually extend this to the NCO and later warrant officer ranks. I would be grateful for copies to my email address one day. You already have it.
Thanks for the correction! I had no idea about the crown design changes.

When Elizabeth II passes on (may that be many years from now) do you think the appearance crowns will change with the new King Charles III (assuming he does not take a different name)?

Hello Chris, just to be clear the crown was not "re-designed", it was just artistically depicted in a different manner. The St Edward's crown itself is unchanged. Interestingly if you look at the crown on the 1878 blue helmet universal star plates that were worn until 1902 with full dress uniform (albeit with a change of centres after 1881), you will see that the crown was depicted as for today, it was only on other items, especially bullion wire badges that the shape was shown differently.

In answer to your question, yes I think that given Charles character and well known sense of tradition he will change the crown, possibly to the one used by his grandfather, although that will stoke a debate as it is known as the 'Imperial' crown which will be seen by the political left (and others) as an anachronism. I predict that there will be a huge kerfuffle and eventually a competition will be set up for a new design to reflect a 'new age' and perhaps 'multiculturalism'. A new crown would be costly, but a compromise might be to re-design (i.e. dismantle and reconstruct) one of the previous ones, which will provoke even more controversy. All-in-all it will be quite fun to sit on the sidelines and observe from the US!

wfrad Wed 23 Jan 2013, 9:05 am

I believe this to be correct..
St Edward’s Crown is worn at the moment that the monarch is crowned in Westminster Abbey.
It is then replaced immediately after the coronation by the Imperial State Crown.

The Imperial State Crown was made in 1838 for the coronation of Queen Victoria, and then altered for the coronation of George VI in 1937 and Elizabeth II in 1953.

Charles would probably follow on; Crowned with the St. Edwards and then to have it replaced by the Imperial Sate Crown. That is unless he's going to be wearing a neck brace...

FROGSMILE Wed 23 Jan 2013, 9:25 am

wfrad wrote:I believe this to be correct..
St Edward’s Crown is worn at the moment that the monarch is crowned in Westminster Abbey.
It is then replaced immediately after the coronation by the Imperial State Crown.

The Imperial State Crown was made in 1838 for the coronation of Queen Victoria, and then altered for the coronation of George VI in 1937 and Elizabeth II in 1953.

Charles would probably follow on; Crowned with the St. Edwards and then to have it replaced by the Imperial Sate Crown. That is unless he's going to be wearing a neck brace...

I believe the question was concerning which crown will be represented on insignia used for State Regalia and Armed Services' badges for rank and ship/unit/air station, and my answer above still stands. It is unlikely to be the St Edwards Crown for the next monarch, as the tradition is that it changes to mark a new reign.

FROGSMILE Wed 23 Jan 2013, 9:26 am

FROGSMILE wrote:
wfrad wrote:I believe this to be correct..
St Edward’s Crown is worn at the moment that the monarch is crowned in Westminster Abbey.
It is then replaced immediately after the coronation by the Imperial State Crown.

The Imperial State Crown was made in 1838 for the coronation of Queen Victoria, and then altered for the coronation of George VI in 1937 and Elizabeth II in 1953.

Charles would probably follow on; Crowned with the St. Edwards and then to have it replaced by the Imperial Sate Crown. That is unless he's going to be wearing a neck brace...

I believe the question is more to do with which crown will be represented on insignia used for State Regalia and Armed Services badges for rank and unit, and my answer above still stands. It is unlikely to be the St Edwards Crown for the next monarch, as the tradition is that it changes to mark a new reign.

sbintayab Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:31 pm

Thanks Frogsmile, Wfrad, ChrisF202 and all.... Right now, I am busy with my current study (M.Sc. in Computer Science).... Hopefully, I will complete my degree by April.... For this reason, I am not able to complete this section.... Please accept my apologize for not adding new images specially Rank badges from 1881 to 1922....
Thanks everyone for encouraging me to complete this section....
I need all your blessings.....
Thanking....
Shams

FROGSMILE Wed 23 Jan 2013, 9:47 pm

sbintayab wrote:Thanks Frogsmile, Wfrad, ChrisF202 and all.... Right now, I am busy with my current study (M.Sc. in Computer Science).... Hopefully, I will complete my degree by April.... For this reason, I am not able to complete this section.... Please accept my apologize for not adding new images specially Rank badges from 1881 to 1922....
Thanks everyone for encouraging me to complete this section....
I need all your blessings.....
Thanking....
Shams

Good luck with the Msc Shams, I did wonder why we had not seen you in the VWF recently. I hope that you will be able to continue with your hobby once you finish the Masters.

sbintayab Thu 24 Jan 2013, 12:42 am

Thanks dear....
Shams

ChrisF202 Thu 24 Jan 2013, 5:39 am

sbintayab wrote:Thanks Frogsmile, Wfrad, ChrisF202 and all.... Right now, I am busy with my current study (M.Sc. in Computer Science).... Hopefully, I will complete my degree by April.... For this reason, I am not able to complete this section.... Please accept my apologize for not adding new images specially Rank badges from 1881 to 1922....
Thanks everyone for encouraging me to complete this section....
I need all your blessings.....
Thanking....
Shams

Good luck with your studies! Very Happy

wfrad Fri 25 Jan 2013, 9:21 am

Firstley Sbintayab, good luck.

Frogsmile,

Not stickily true regarding rank and regimental badges.

Prior to Queen Victoria's reign a version of St Edwards Crown was used. The official coronation crown.

The queens crown during Queen Victoria's reign varied, sometimes with square ends.

The kings crown (Tudor) was used on badges between 1902 and 1954 with no change for new monarch.

The queens crown during the present reign has been more standardised in design.

The only thing that would change automatically with a new monarch is the royal cypher, as during the period 1902 -1954.

If there is a tradition, then is could be Edward for Queens and Tudor for Kings, going along that line it should then change for Charles as it did for Edward VII in 1901.

That said, George II, George III, George IV and William IV would have to be discounted.
During the reign George II the St Edward type crowns were worn as part of regimental distinctions.
Later, during the reigns of George III, IV and William IV St Edward type crowns were also used as rank insignia.

Also, Charles is not such a stickler for tradition when it doesn't suit...

pedroalfonso Thu 30 May 2013, 3:59 am

Could you please show with more detail the rank badges of Riffles Officers 1831-1855 and also after this period?

Thanks

wfrad Sun 09 Jun 2013, 2:16 am

Most of the regulations for the period are not illustrated.
Also many illustrations of the uniforms are useless for seeing the fine detail of the braid, black on dark green.
The Imperial War Museum will not be able to help since it's out of they time period.
Local Rifle's museums may help, failing that you could try contacting the National Army Museum.

The link below should take you to the on-line request form for the National Army Museum;
http://www.nam.ac.uk/contact-us

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