European, but who?
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European, but who?
Possibly Baltic. But I have no idea from where.
Sean- Posts : 1129
Join date : 2008-04-03
Who
For starters...
Cuffs could be Portuguese,
Collars could be Austrian,
Badges German,
So what we have is a group of individuals who are making their escape by confusing everyone!
Or
Maybe Austrain.
Didn't the Austrian army officers have stripes on the sleeve, three for field, two for captain and one for lieutenant, with the same pattern lace as worn on the Shako.
The office behind the cup has what appears to be an old style parade tunic, no pockets and minus facings, whilest the officer to his left has the standard style service tunic. Officers to his right are wearing the style of tunic with the squarer pockets seen during the war.
Cuffs could be Portuguese,
Collars could be Austrian,
Badges German,
So what we have is a group of individuals who are making their escape by confusing everyone!
Or
Maybe Austrain.
Didn't the Austrian army officers have stripes on the sleeve, three for field, two for captain and one for lieutenant, with the same pattern lace as worn on the Shako.
The office behind the cup has what appears to be an old style parade tunic, no pockets and minus facings, whilest the officer to his left has the standard style service tunic. Officers to his right are wearing the style of tunic with the squarer pockets seen during the war.
wfrad- Posts : 16300
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: European, but who?
My guess would be the Finnish Jager battalion raised by the Germans in WWI, which ended up serving as the nucleus of the new Finnish Army.
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
Who
I discounted the Finnish army due to lack of information.
Also believing that been trained by the German army, they would have probably worn German uniforms or a combination of German and Imperial Russian.
Possibly a mistake on my part for not considering the Finnish army.
I came across this site, it doesn't give any answers to the question regarding the photograph but it is interesting.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/FinnishTunicsectionrevised.asp
Also believing that been trained by the German army, they would have probably worn German uniforms or a combination of German and Imperial Russian.
Possibly a mistake on my part for not considering the Finnish army.
I came across this site, it doesn't give any answers to the question regarding the photograph but it is interesting.
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/FinnishTunicsectionrevised.asp
wfrad- Posts : 16300
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: European, but who?
Given the WW1 medals and the Germanic appearance I thought Wurttemburg Polizei, but the guy at left wears a Dutch-style shako. Or is it a hardened version of the field cap. The cockade suggests Wurttemburg (black and red) but the rank insignia is unusual.
Sean- Posts : 1129
Join date : 2008-04-03
Re: European, but who?
Stumped. Checked my Dutch references - negative on fly-front tunics, negative on horizontal cuff braid. Collar rank could be Dutch. Far left kepi very Dutch. References negative on "soft" versions of the kepi. Maybe the left hand man is Dutch and the other three some kind of German organization? Iron crosses!
mconrad- Posts : 386
Join date : 2008-07-27
Unknown
Also,
The figure behind the cup has a small triangular badge above the bars on his cuff, non of the others appear to have this badge.
The officer to his left has what appears to be a WWI wound badge but when magnified it seems to be, at least to me, to be a helmet and crossbones similar to some of the German military organisations that appeared after WWI.
I say appears, unable to get any great detail.
The figure behind the cup has a small triangular badge above the bars on his cuff, non of the others appear to have this badge.
The officer to his left has what appears to be a WWI wound badge but when magnified it seems to be, at least to me, to be a helmet and crossbones similar to some of the German military organisations that appeared after WWI.
I say appears, unable to get any great detail.
Last edited by wfrad on Tue 26 Jul 2022, 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed photobucket)
wfrad- Posts : 16300
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: European, but who?
mconrad wrote:Stumped. Checked my Dutch references - negative on fly-front tunics, negative on horizontal cuff braid. Collar rank could be Dutch. Far left kepi very Dutch. References negative on "soft" versions of the kepi. Maybe the left hand man is Dutch and the other three some kind of German organization? Iron crosses!
The left hand man's belt is definitely German.
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
Re: European, but who?
The rank insignia looks very clearly to be Austrian or Austrian influenced. The second from right has what appears to be a captain's rank and the two figures on the ends may be lieutenants. The second from left is harder to figure as the spacing doesn't correspond to familiar patterns for Austrian rank. The kepi has an Austrian look to it, with a two-button fastening. The cockade is hard to make out. Three are wearing the Iron Cross, so I'm guessing Austrian officers, and WW I veterans.
EDIT: Is that a German wound badge on the two figures on the right? It makes me wonder if they were Austrians attached to German forces in WWI, and thus bearing German medals, or German veterans who joined the Austrian forces after the war?
EDIT: Is that a German wound badge on the two figures on the right? It makes me wonder if they were Austrians attached to German forces in WWI, and thus bearing German medals, or German veterans who joined the Austrian forces after the war?
dahardy- Posts : 2
Join date : 2013-07-13
Re: European, but who?
dahardy wrote:The rank insignia looks very clearly to be Austrian or Austrian influenced. The second from right has what appears to be a captain's rank and the two figures on the ends may be lieutenants. The second from left is harder to figure as the spacing doesn't correspond to familiar patterns for Austrian rank. The kepi has an Austrian look to it, with a two-button fastening. The cockade is hard to make out. Three are wearing the Iron Cross, so I'm guessing Austrian officers, and WW I veterans.
EDIT: Is that a German wound badge on the two figures on the right? It makes me wonder if they were Austrians attached to German forces in WWI, and thus bearing German medals, or German veterans who joined the Austrian forces after the war?
If they were Austrian, their pockets would have the 3 pointed flaps.
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
Tunics
I believe that the Austrian army used captured Italian tunics to compensate for a lack of their own tunics.
The Italian tunics was similar to those shown having a straight pocket flap, while a second style of Italian tunic had no flap.
So maybe these could be captured Italian tunics, major alterations to captued uniforms would maybe not have been given a high priority at the time.
The Italian tunics was similar to those shown having a straight pocket flap, while a second style of Italian tunic had no flap.
So maybe these could be captured Italian tunics, major alterations to captued uniforms would maybe not have been given a high priority at the time.
wfrad- Posts : 16300
Join date : 2008-04-16
Location : Durham UK
Re: European, but who?
wfrad wrote:I believe that the Austrian army used captured Italian tunics to compensate for a lack of their own tunics.
The Italian tunics was similar to those shown having a straight pocket flap, while a second style of Italian tunic had no flap.
So maybe these could be captured Italian tunics, major alterations to captued uniforms would maybe not have been given a high priority at the time.
Italian officer's tunics had front pockets, while enlisted men's tunics didn't. However, the officer's tunics also had shoulder straps.
Animal- Posts : 203
Join date : 2008-04-09
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